Date: 2 November 2021
Time: 13:30 – 16:15
Venue: MS Teams

Present:

• Dr Sally Witcher (Chair);
• Sharon McIntyre (Member);
• Judith Paterson (Member);
• Dr Mark Simpson (Member).

Apologies:

None

In Attendance:

• Lorraine Cairns, SCoSS Lead Secretary;
• Alan Henderson, SCoSS Analysis and Participation Officer (acting);
• Lisa Kinnear, SCoSS Administrative Assistant;
• Fiona Lodge, SCoSS Governance and Engagement (Lead) Officer.

In Attendance for agenda item 3:

• Ian Davidson, Scottish Government Social Security Policy Deputy Director;
• Stephanie Virlogeux, Scottish Government Lawyer;
• Alex Young, Scottish Government Social Security Policy Technical, Corporate and Parliament Team Leader.

The Chair welcomed the Board and Secretariat and extended a warm welcome to Alan and Lisa who were attending their first Board meeting as new Secretariat staff.

No relevant declarations of interest were given.

The Board discussed final amendments for the report and the next steps to it being laid. The layout of the report and the publication process was also discussed, with the aim of ensuring this was as seamless as possible.

• Action – Secretariat to produce a style guide for consistency across SCoSS publications, having checked APS’s editorial guidelines (APS publishes SCoSS’s reports).
• Action – Chair to make contact with the President of the Social Security Tribunal.

Since the ‘Suspension of Assistance’ draft regulations had been referred, there had been significant revisions, including separate referral of additional unrelated amendments and a retitling of the regulations to the Disability Assistance for Children and Young People (Scotland) Regulations 2021, the draft Disability Assistance for Working Age People (Scotland) Regulations 2022 and the Scottish Child Payment Regulations 2020. The full revised regulations had not been formally referred. Noting the scope for confusion, members agreed it would be most straightforward to issue two separate reports on what would now be one set of regulations, both on the same day.

Mark gave the Members an update on the draft reports on Suspension of Assistance and on Disability Assistance for Children and Young People (Scotland) Regulations 2021 and the Scottish Child Payment Regulations 2020. Members discussed and considered the outstanding issues that required agreement.

• Action – Mark to revise both reports related to Suspension of Assistance and the Disability Assistance for Children and Young People (Scotland) Regulations 2021 and Scottish Child Payment Regulations 2020 by 4 November for Members to comment on.
• Action – The reports on Suspension of Assistance and the Disability Assistance for Children and Young People (Scotland) Regulations 2021 and Scottish Child Payment Regulations 2020 are to be laid by 18 November.

Ian Davidson, Stephanie Virlogeux and Alex Young joined the meeting. Alex introduced the draft legislative timetable, highlighting forthcoming legislation that would be subject to SCoSS scrutiny. Ian noted that the legislative timetable wasn’t in the public domain so any reference to it in SCoSS’s Business Plan would require advance clearance.

• Action – Secretariat to supply any reference to the legislative timetable in SCoSS’s business plan to Ian Davidson for clearance.

Members noted that they would be interested to be made aware of regulations that weren’t subject to SCoSS scrutiny and consultation work undertaken for any regulations. They also noted that when regulations were referred to SCoSS that contained a mix of parts for and not for scrutiny, it would be helpful to have them clearly distinguished, and to give clarity on expectations regarding SCoSS making comments or recommendations on parts not within its remit.

• Action – Officials to inform SCoSS when consultation for new social security assistance is being undertaken by Scottish Government.
• Action – Officials to inform SCoSS of draft regulations (and the supporting documentation) that aren’t created under the super affirmative procedure/ referred to SCoSS.
• Action – When draft regulations are supplied to SCoSS, officials to clearly indicate which parts do or do not fall under the super affirmative procedure and to clarify expectations on the latter.

Secretariat noted that it should be helpful to have pre-referral discussions with lead officials prior to formal referrals.

• Action – Secretariat to streamline the pre-referral process with Officials.

Following the officials departure, Members discussed forthcoming regulations and the Chair agreed to lead on the Uprating report with support from Secretariat.

• Action – Chair to lead on the Uprating report.

Members discussed the draft report and considered the outstanding issues that required agreement.

• Action – Chair to revise the draft Afghan Resettlement report for further comment from Members by 10 November.

Members discussed the continuous improvement session from 27 October and considered the scheduling of the outputs.

Mark and Sharon agreed to progress the work for the Charter report with support from Secretariat, with Alan’s support and with Lorraine maintaining oversight.

• Action – Sharon and Mark will lead on the Charter and will meet to firm up the outline for the Board to have a focused discussion on it.

Date: 3 November 2021
Time: 13:30 – 16:00
Venue: MS Teams

Present:

• Dr Sally Witcher (Chair);
• Sharon McIntyre (Member);
• Dr Mark Simpson (Member).

Apologies:

• Judith Paterson (from agenda item 4)

In Attendance:

• Lorraine Cairns, SCoSS Lead Secretary;
• Lisa Kinnear, SCoSS Administrative Assistant;
• Fiona Lodge, SCoSS Deputy Secretary.

For agenda item 5:

• Colin Armstrong, Scottish Government Sponsorship and Delivery Manager;
• Ian Davidson, Scottish Government Social Security Policy Deputy Director;
• Marta Kuzma, Audit Scotland Senior Auditor;
• Helen Russell, Audit Scotland Senior Audit Manager.

For agenda item 7:

• Ian Davidson, Scottish Government Social Security Policy Deputy Director;
• Ben Macpherson, Minister for Social Security and Local Government;
• Shona Robison, Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government.

The Chair welcomed the Members to the second day of the Board meeting.

Members discussed checklists that would help systematise the scrutiny process and the potential to embed them in SCoSS’s scrutiny and in the Protocol document.

• Action – Secretariat to re-circulate the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s checklist.

Members discussed updating the Protocol and the scrutiny checklist. The Chair and Judith agreed to lead on this work with support from Secretariat.

• Action – Members and Secretariat to agree to wording for the Protocol that firms up the documentation and information we expect to receive with draft regulations.
• Action – Chair and Judith to lead on updating the Protocol and scrutiny checklist with support from Secretariat.
• Action – Chair and Sharon to lead on the Operations/ Governance strand of the continuous improvement work and to meet to discuss the next steps.

Members discussed when requests for their input were received but it wasn’t clear whether it related to their role with SCoSS or in other capacities. Secretariat offered to create a note for action to take when this happens and to share it with Members.

• Action – Secretariat to create a desk note in Connect on action to take when Board Members receive requests that aren’t clear whether it’s for SCoSS or their non-SCoSS roles.

Members discussed the work plan paper and the members update.

• Action – Secretariat to keep the updated work plan document in Connect.

Members discussed updating the Protocol, Standing Orders and Framework documents. Secretariat highlighted the timelines for updating the documents and that an issues log had been created to note particular areas to be updated.

The Chair highlighted to Members that she was meeting the Social Security Policy Unit Heads the following week.

• Action – Secretariat to share the names of the Social Security Policy Unit Heads with Members.

Members discussed the type of public body that SCoSS was and whether the way it have been framed impacted on its operation in ways that had not been foreseen and which were not conducive to efficiency in delivering core business. Members considered whether a review of this should be included in the next business plan.

• Action – Members to consider whether a review of the type of body SCoSS is should be included in the business plan 2022-23.

Members discussed the draft 2021-22 business plan. Secretariat noted that, once finalised, the business plan would require Ministerial sign off for the strategic aims and objectives and could then be published.

• Action – Secretariat to publish the Business Plan once sign off from the Minister is received on the strategic aims and objectives.

Sally welcomed Colin Armstrong, Ian Davidson, Marta Kuzma and Helen Russell to the meeting.

Helen introduced the Audit Scotland annual audit report and highlighted that the clear opinion SCoSS received was the best outcome. Marta then talked to the annual audit report and noted that one of the recommendations was for the Board to review the governance arrangements to ensure any audit and risk functions were adequately addressed. The Chair confirmed that, on the advice of Audit Scotland, officials were in the process of recruiting someone to advise SCoSS on audit and governance matters. In order to process the quantity of related business and make best use of members’ limited time, the advisor with two Board members could form a small ‘audit sub-committee’ which would review and make recommendations to the rest of the Board.

• Action – SCoSS to establish a small ‘Audit sub-committee’ comprised of the Chair, Sharon and audit adviser (once appointed) to meet quarterly and report to the full Board.

Marta highlighted the audit actions which Secretariat would progress in the form of an action plan, with support from the Sponsor Team and finance colleagues.

• Action – Secretariat to establish an action plan and agree responsibilities with finance and sponsor team colleagues to progress Audit recommendations.

The Board approved the annual audit report, noting the additional charge of £1,000 arising from the delay producing the annual report and accounts. They confirmed that they were not aware of any instances of any actual, suspected or alleged fraud; any subsequent events that have occurred since the date of the financial statements; or material non-compliance with laws and regulations affecting the entity that should be brought to our attention, since 1 April 2020 to 31 March 2021.

Marta set out the next steps for the Accountable Officer and Audit Scotland to sign off the annual report and accounts.

The Chair expressed thanks to Helen and Marta for their work on the audit, to Ian for his work as SCoSS’s Accountable Officer and to Secretariat, Sponsor Team and finance colleagues for producing the annual report and accounts.

• Action – Secretariat to consider how the audit process could be streamlined for the next audit.

The Board considered discussion points for the following meeting with the Ministers.

The Chair welcomed Cabinet Secretary Shona Robison, Minister Ben Macpherson and Deputy Director Ian Davidson to the meeting. The Chair gave an overview of the SCoSS’s work and the pressures and challenges faced to produce this.

The Cabinet Secretary expressed her appreciation and thanks for SCoSS’s work and highlighted the success rate of the recommendations.

The Minister expressed his deep admiration and gratitude for SCoSS’s work so far and that SCoSS’s views contributed to full consideration for matters of social security assistance.

The Cabinet Secretary and Minister responded to questions from the Members.

The Cabinet Secretary and Minister discussed the Adult Disability Payment report SCoSS produced and highlighted the complexities surrounding the large, milestone regulations.

The Minister and Board considered the interfaces between the Scottish and UK governments and discussed forthcoming forms of social security assistance and opportunities for other reports such as on the Charter.

Ian highlighted that officials would work with the Minister to ensure that when draft regulations were referred to SCoSS, details of all considerations of constraints, timelines and any others were noted.

• Action – Ben Macpherson to consider the other scrutiny functions of SCoSS (Charter; other requests) and have a conversation around what would be useful but would fit into our workload.
• Action – When work is referred to SCoSS, any details of constraints, timelines and other considerations should be included.

Members discussed the topics raised with the Cabinet Secretary and Minister. The Board and Secretariat discussed the frequency of future meetings with senior government officials.

• Action – Secretariat and Private Office to explore establishing the Cabinet Secretary attending SCoSS Board meeting annually and biannual meetings between the Chair and Minister, as discussed by the Board.

The Board agreed that the minutes, rolling actions, work plan, finance update and risk update papers would be issued by correspondence for comment and would be on the agenda of the December Board meeting for approval.

• Action – Secretariat to circulate the minutes, rolling actions, work plan, finance update and risk update papers by correspondence, to be approved at the December Board meeting.

The Chair highlighted a number of meetings that were forthcoming.

Members discussed the pressure of business over recent months and the need to progress work on the Charter and other matters. As a result, the Board agreed to hold monthly Board meetings for the first half of 2022. Members requested that meeting dates were confirmed in diaries.

• Action – Secretariat to circulate meeting dates for monthly Board meetings in 2022.

Date of the next board meeting: 15 December 2021